Talk:Pencak silat

StanceS, techniques, styles, etc.

Will there ever be information about the stances, techniques, styles, and other things in Pencak Silat? Angie Y. (talk) 23:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be an expert on the subject. Why not add it yourself? :-) Thanks!, Codelyoko193 (T/C) 01:11, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I could try to add some information (I practise Pencak Silat) but I'm not sure where to begin, as the article is quite messy right now... Any suggestions? Chingchuanchiu (talk) 21:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah! Like pictures and descriptions of the various kicks, punches, throws, takedowns, and even the bow. Angie Y. (talk) 21:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Add some philosophy and what Silat is. Who practice it? Some characteristics of it. How it differences from other martial arts?Pwordisony (talk) 23:05, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The difference between Pencak Silat & Silat?

I thought that it are all names for the same... I mean, it is indeed an 'umbrella term' but essentially, Pencak Silat and Silat are used to describe the same, or am I incorrect? Chingchuanchiu (talk) 21:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I dont quite agree with the notion of "umbrella term". I believe this has got to do with modern NATIONALISM. As for the Malays, for 2000 years, "Silat" is THE ONLY TERM for Malay Martial Arts which practiced widely in Malay peninsular, Sumatera and Brunei.Orhanghazi (talk) 05:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Pencak Silat in Popular Culture

Think this article could have a section for Pop Culture references? I already have one line thought up for such a section. "Pencak Silat is the main form of martial arts practiced by Ulrich Stern and Yumi Ishiyama in the French animated series of Code Lyoko, and the martial art is mentioned many times throughout the series." DanMat6288 (talk) 16:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great! Chingchuanchiu (talk) 18:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree completely. I will add that in at once. Angie Y. (talk) 17:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how its appearance in a cartoon warrants a pointless and rather fanboyish section, under the guise of "pop culture." It looks more like an excuse to include a mention of Code Lyoko in the article. Unless there's a valid reason for its inclusion, it will be deleted. Beemer69 16:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

It's valid because it's shown in a popular series. Angie Y. (talk) 19:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, the section will remain, but a lot of unnecessary information has been removed. We don't need a long, winded explanation of how the characters practice this art, because this section should not be treated as an extension of the Lyoko articles. And don't use all caps, please, as that constitutes yelling and is inconsiderate. Beemer69 21:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I've been asked to comment so consider this an outside opinion. Trivia sections are generally discouraged. The particular section does not contain any reliable sources and seems out of context with the rest of the article. It would not suit merging into any other part of this particular article. Perhaps this information would be better suited for a fan wiki? Or even better, if it can be sourced, mention it in the Code Lyoko article, the importance of martial arts and PS. It does seem rather in-universe and inappropriate for this article, as this article is about Pencak Silat, not Code Lyoko. Seraphim♥ ^Whipp 13:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I also have heard of Tom Clancy write about Pencak Silat in his book "Tom Clancy's Net Force." Someone may want to check it out. One of the characters seems to know a lot about the art, and I suppose it is a popular culture reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.243.148 (talk) 23:04, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Link section

To me, it seems as though the link section is only used by pencak silat schools to promote their own website... What should we do about it? Delete all the links that are irrelevant? Chingchuanchiu (talk) 13:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. Angie Y. (talk) 22:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I deleted two links... But what do we do about the youtube movies? A few could be useful, but I'm not able to discern which are really relevant... Chingchuanchiu (talk) 16:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Some links I tried to add were not accepted. What I tried to place there are some links to youtube movies that show Silek Pauh styles that are unknown outside Padang Sumatra. It could show more diversity, because mostly Javanese or Malay Pencak silat styles are promoted outside Indonesia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.119.176.124 (talk) 18:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Uniforms

I have seen two types of Pencak Silat uniforms. What are these uniforms called? 19:04, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

In Indonesia, we have several names, one of them called as Baju Silat (silat clothes / uniform) Limpato (talk) 05:35, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

difference of rencong / tumbuk lada

The article lists rencong and tumbuk lada as synonyms for the same weapon, which they are not. Main differences are a.) ethnic origin, and b.) shape of the handle.

a.) The tumbuk lada is considered a Minangkabau weapon (West Sumatra)as mentioned in the article, while the rencong is from Aceh (North Sumatra). Different ethnic groups and cultures, and quite a distance in between.

b.) While the handle of a tumbuk lada bears resemblance to a "pepper crusher" (hence the name), the handle of a rencong has a long protrusion at the end which points upwards when properly held, going roughly around the base of the thumb. It functions as a lever for twisting the blade in a circular motion upon stabbing contact with an opponent.

The same inaccuracy also shows up in the sub-article on silat weapons, while the rencong article linked there seems to be correct (showing a typical rencong and defining it as an Acehnese weapon). 85.179.210.118 (talk) 16:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Pencak Silat

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Pencak Silat's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Raj":

• From Indian martial arts: Raj, J. David Manuel (1977). The Origin and the Historical Development of Silambam Fencing: An Ancient Self-Defence Sport of India. Oregon: College of Health, Physical Education and Recreation, Univ. of Oregon. pp. 44, 50, & 83.
• From Silambam: Raj, J. David Manuel (1977). The Origin and the Historical Developlment of Silambam Fencing: An Ancient Self-Defence Sport of India. Oregon: College of Health, Physical Education and Recreation, Univ. of Oregon. pp. 44, 50, & 83.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:51, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

World Champion Ships 2014

I found several sources claiming that the champion ships will be in Jakarta. It'd be really cool if it would actually be in Nürburg. Can, whoever posted this, back this up? Misel (talk) 20:52, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Kerambit

The Kerambit is illustrated but not included in the list of weapons.Bill (talk) 01:35, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I added it to the list. XoXo (talk) 07:51, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 3 December 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: accionvegana. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:25, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

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Pencak Silat → Pencak silat – No reason for this not to be in sentence case; this is how it is spelled in the body of the article. UnnamedUser (talk) 04:15, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Modern Pencak Silat

I will be updating this page from time to time to reflect the history of Pencak Silat as the tradition of Southeast Asia. The modern Pencak Silat was created by four founding countries but currently, only Indonesia is mentioned on this page while ignoring the tradition of silat outside of Indonesia.MrCattttt (talk) 09:18, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

There are no sources to support your claim. Northheavensky (talk) 20:55, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Kindly provide more details on your argument. Can you at least provide an example? Here are my example of biases in this article.

1. The sources clearly claim that silat comprises the principal martial arts includes Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and portions of the Philippines. But in the article only mentioned "Silat is a collective word for a class of indigenous martial arts from the geo-cultural area of Indonesia, more precisely in the Indonesian Archipelago"
2. The source clearly claimed that the International Pencak Silat Federation (IPSF) or PERSILAT (Persekutuan Pencak Silat Antarabangsa) is the international pencak silat governing organization and the only pencak silat organisation recognised by the Olympic Council of Asia. The organisation was established on 11 March 1980 in Jakarta and consists of the national organisations of Brunei Darussalam (Persekutuan Silat Kebangsaan Brunei Darussalam) (PERSIB), Indonesia (Ikatan Pencak Silat Indonesia) (IPSI), Malaysia (Persekutuan Silat Kebangsaan) (PESAKA) and Singapore (Persekutuan Silat Singapura) (PERSISI). PERSILAT management reflects the four Founding Countries, where the tradition of pencak silat originated. But in the article only mentioned the leading organization of pencak silat in Indonesia is Ikatan Pencak Silat Indonesia (Pencak Silat Association of Indonesia). The liaison body for international pencak silat is the International Pencak Silat Federation or PERSILAT (Persekutuan Pencak Silat Antara Bangsa)
3. The Bajau are a seafaring people of Borneo, Mindanao and Sulawesi. In fact, there are more Bajau in Borneo and Mindanao than Sulawesi. But in the article only mentioned the Bajau are a seafaring people of Sulawesi.

Please let me know if this is not against Wikipedia:Neutral point of view MrCattttt (talk) 23:46, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

You fail to understand pencak silat, the source you claim is talking about "silat" not pencak silat. Pencak silat is a combination of 2 martial arts in Indonesia, created in 1948. And yes, international competitions recognize pencak silat and not silat. Northheavensky (talk) 03:23, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Although the word silat is widely known throughout much of Southeast Asia, the term pencak silat is used mainly in Indonesia. Pencak silat was chosen in 1948 as a unifying term for the Indonesian fighting styles. It was a compound of the two most commonly used words for martial arts in Indonesia. Pencak was the term used by the Sundanese in western part of Java and also in the Central Java and East Java, while silat was used in Sumatra, Malay Peninsula and Borneo. In Minang usage, pencak and silat are seen as being two aspects of the same practice. Pencak is the essence of training, the outward aspect of the art which a casual observer is permitted to witness as performance. Silat is the essence of combat and self-defense, the true fighting application of the techniques which are kept secret from outsiders and not divulged to students until the guru deems them ready. While other definitions exist, all agree that silat cannot exist without pencak, and pencak without silat skills is purposeless. Northheavensky (talk) 03:23, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

The source clearly say that the International Pencak Silat Federation (IPSF) consists of the national organisations of Brunei Darussalam, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. All of them are the four Founding Countries, where the tradition of pencak silat originated. There are 4 countries make up the IPSF not one. The term might have been initiated by Indonesia but the culture is not. This is clearly not Wikipedia:Neutral point of view MrCattttt (talk) 04:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@MrCattttt: Your reason is so weird "There are 4 countries make up the IPSF not one. The term might have been initiated by Indonesia but the culture is not". This is easy, the international Pencak Silat Federation was formed in 1980, while the Martial art of pencak silat was formed in 1948. Northheavensky (talk) 09:47, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Northheavensky: Good, so you agreed that all four countries established the IPSF in 1980. Do you know that pencak silat was not formed in 1948? Only the term was used since 1948. Pencak silat is an umbrella term not a “new thing” that was created. Could you also answer all three questions i have above? You completely ignore them. MrCattttt (talk) 10:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Mrcattttt: lol. I'm not saying I agree "Good, so you agreed that all four countries are the origin of pencak silat". International Pencak Silat Federation is just organization. Northheavensky (talk) 10:30, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Northheavensky: Thank you for your comment. Could you answer the three question above also? MrCattttt (talk) 11:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Already answered. Do you still not understand? your claim is about silat not pencak silat. see Silat. Northheavensky (talk) 12:39, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Northheavensky: Kindly refer to page 223 of the in-line source. The source clearly say that “founding members consisted of Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei, all of whom were considered as countries with largely ethnic Malay population as original sources of Pencak Silat. The source clearly said “pencak silat” and not “silat”MrCattttt (talk) 12:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Read again

Copy from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring 26 July 2021

@MrCattttt: You are discussing on the talk page, which is good. Per WP:BRD, you introduced new content and were reverted. The next step is to gain consensus for your suggested change on the talk page. You should stop warring for your preferred version immediately and continue discussion. I do not want to block while you are discussing, but you need to cease warring or that's likely to happen. Crazycomputers 03:44, 26 July 2021 (UTC). Northheavensky (talk) 14:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

References