Talk:Q4740163

«Estudió en»

He eliminado la referencia a la WP:FR que había en el item «estudió en», porque ya no existe. Antes en WP:FR se decía, en el infobox del artículo, «Diplomé à : université de Gérone», lo cual es totalmente falso, como se deducía del texto y he explicado en WP:FR Discussion:Carles Puigdemont, porque empezó los estudios universitarios, pero los abandonó. No hay referencias de que tenga ningún título universitario, como se afirma en esta sentencia judicial. También he eliminado el item entero «estudió en: Colegio universitario de Gerona» porque esta formulación induce interesadamente a error, porque hace pensar que obtuvo un título universitario, lo cual no es verdad. No he puesto la razón en el resumen de edición, porque no sé cómo se hace aparecer en resumen de edición aquí en WD, pero lo explico aquí. A cambio, pongo el item «grado académico: bachillerato». --Pompilos (talk) 11:53, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

No entiendo la inducción interesada al error. "Estudió en" significa que las "instituciones educativas en las que estudió". En ningún caso dice que obtuvo el título. "estudió en: Colegio universitario de Gerona" es cierto y factual. Se puede ver la documentación sobre esta propiedad en educated at (P69). --Davidpar (talk) 12:15, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Si nos mantenemos pegados al significado literal de las palabras, tampoco hay constancia de que «estudió en» sea cierto; como mucho lo sería «se matriculó en», porque a lo mejor no abrió un libro en su —no sabemos cómo de corta— trayectoria de estudiante universitario; como lo aprobó, la lógica dice que sí estudió en bachillerato, y en esa casilla se habría de poner, en todo caso, «Instituto o Colegio X». La referencia a la propiedad educated at (P69) es muy reveladora, porque en ella se especifica —tal y como yo sostengo— que a) en español «estudió en» se entiende como sinónimo de «graduado en», y b) en inglés «educated at» se entiende como sinónimo de «gratuate of» y «graduated from». Y Carles Puigdemont no se graduó en ninguna universidad, como bien sabes. Si quieres entender lo de «inducción interesada al error», puedes leer esta discusión (a partir del 1 de diciembre), o esta noticia sobre su Curriculum Vitae y la sentencia del TSJC: El currículum de Carles Puigdemont és confús però legal, donde el tribunal manifiesta que «Pot admetre's que indueix o pot induir a confusió els lectors de la pàgina web, i fins i tot que l'esmentada confusió pugui tenir un propòsit interessat». Salut, company! --Pompilos (talk) 18:11, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

He only started universitary studies, but didn't graduated

@Ghuron: This question has been already discussed in many places, but in languages different from English (formerly here in Spanish, in French and in Catalan). Puigdemont started universitary studies of Catalan Philology, but he didn't finish. The property P69 means the University where he graduated (if he did so). In French Wikipedia, there is a category «Étudiant de l'université de Gérone», but the body of the article says clearly: «Il entame des études de philologie catalane à l'université de Gérone mais les quitte pour se consacrer à l'activité journalistique…». --Pompilos (talk) 14:34, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

@Pompilos: property P69 is used for schools (not necessarily universities) which person was attending. It is widely used for dropouts --Ghuron (talk) 14:39, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

@Ghuron: In many languages, property P69 is labelled as Alma mater. As it was discussed at Graduated?, I found it must not be used for dropouts. In a synoptic information, as a table or a CV, the expression "Alma mater: Oxford University" means that this person graduated. See at Property:P69 the equivalences of "university attended / graduate of / graduated from" in English. --Pompilos (talk) 22:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

And regarding dropouts… How many days, months or years do you think are enough for a person to be listed as a former student of a university? A single day is enough? Obviously not, so that we should agree for a standard period of time, and then investigate in each case how long a person attended his universitary studies. I find it a nonsense. --Pompilos (talk) 22:18, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

@Pompilos: I don't think I care about this specific statement regarding Mr. Puigdemont. This is BLP you can revert any statement that you believe is inaccurate without any additional reasoning. But since you did provide reasoning, I don't think your viewpoint reflect consensus. In section graduated? I can see 1 person that shares your views, and at least 4 that support dropouts. The later group provide reasoning behind their logic and suggested a way how one can distinguish between graduates and dropouts. The person who was oppose dropouts wrote there after discussion was finished, so we can assume that he saw it and did not argue. The argument regarding "alma mater" not adequately reflecting nature of this property was specifically discussed in section German Label Alma mater. And primary English label is not "graduated from/of", but "educated in" which include dropouts.

The question "how many days" was specifically answered in the graduated? section, but I personally believe that should not establish arbitrary level for number of days spend in educational institution. If reliable sources specify that person was educated somewhere, so should we. Let me give you an example, according to [1] Katerina Tikhonova (Q19364345) was attending Peterschule (Q53305788) (presumably for 3-4 years until his father was moved to Moscow). This is not alma mater and she definitely was not graduated, but several sources notices this. Why should we ignore that? --Ghuron (talk) 05:01, 21 May 2018 (UTC)